Washington — USA needs to start planning Berlin air transport operation To save the Kyiv people from the siege of Russia and begin considering the deployment of NATO troops to western Ukraine, Congressman Tom Marinovsky, a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee and former Assistant Secretary of Human Rights, said. Under former President Barack Obama.
“We’ll have to face some difficult choices in the coming weeks,” Malinovsky said in an interview with Yahoo News’ Skullduggery podcast. “We need to be bold. It’s a new world.” Marinovsky said that such actions are “very, very dangerous”, especially the introduction of NATO troops directly with the Russian troops. He admitted that it could lead to conflict. Still, Marinovsky said the alternative was likely to be “total exclusion of Ukraine” with Russian troops on the borders of Poland, Romania and Hungary.
Below is an edited transcript of a conversation between Marinovsky and Michael Ishikov, the host of “Skaldagery,” and Daniel Clademan.
Michael Ishikov: So we have all been watching for fear of the savagery of Russia’s attack on Ukraine. Is the question at this point about the use of cluster munitions targeting civilians after the bombing of the reactor enough to stop Vladimir Putin?
Tom Marinovsky: I don’t know if I can stop him. I know he can lose, we are horrible, but he and his government and what he represents come out of this defeat, and the United States and ours More united than knowing that we can guarantee that our allies will be stronger. Two weeks ago, a week ago, I had a list of the Biden administrations with a lot of things I wanted them to do. They did most of them. … but in the coming weeks we will have to face some difficult choices. As this gets worse, there are some decisions we haven’t made yet that Putin may force us.
Daniel Clademan: So what are some of those difficult choices?
Marinovsky: Imagine Kyiv being completely surrounded in the next few days and weeks. We are currently loading and unloading food, ammunition and all other supplies. But if it’s completely blocked, do we launch something like this?  Berlin airlift, are American military planes flying with supplies to the people guarding the city? That would be in line with Biden’s policy. It will make them bold to shoot us, not to shoot Russians, and of course it is very, very dangerous.
Clademan: If they were surrounding Kyiv and trying to block supplies entering the city and we started flying them, why wouldn’t they shoot us in such a situation?
Marinovsky: They didn’t shoot us because it was starting a war when we were flying things to Berlin. … the road rules between the United States and Russia set during the Cold War allow proxies to fight each other, but fight directly because it causes a potentially devastating and potentially nuclear war. It is not. … I think we need to be bold. Looking at the history of Berlin airlift, it was a practical success. It fed the people of Berlin who needed it, but it was also a great moral and psychological victory for the United States in the Cold War.
Clademan: Do you know if the Biden administration is actively considering it?
Marinovsky: I think they are aware that we may face this situation. I raised it a few days ago at a hearing at the Foreign Affairs Committee with Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman. … we need to be bold. It’s a new world.
Ishikov: Is Putin a rational actor at this point?
Marinovsky: If you asked me a few years ago, perhaps a few months ago, I would have said the man was evil but rational. It’s ruthless, but it’s not separated from reality.I’m rethinking about it [laughs] Now he hates what happened to Ukraine in the last decade, how Ukrainians believe in their national identity and independence, and the way of Europe, even the Russian-speaking Ukrainian population. It seems that you are fooling yourself about what you are doing. Thinking about this Russian invasion, and of course, how hard the Ukrainians resist the Russian invasion. He seemed to believe in his promotion in this case, with disastrous consequences for himself and his country.
Ishikov: So how does it change the calculation about what we are doing if he is not a rational actor?
Marinovsky: He certainly wants us to believe now that he can do anything, and he hesitates to take certain steps to protect Ukraine with that possibility in mind. I hope that. And I think it’s irresponsible for us not to take into account the possibility of him doing incredibly dangerous things. Still, at the same time, I don’t think he started a nuclear war over the provision of humanitarian aid and even ammunition.
Clademan: You said this is a new world. What do you say to Americans who might say, “Well, this is happening half a world away from me, it doesn’t really affect my life.”
Marinovsky: When Hitler occupied part of Czechoslovakia in 1938, it was a small country half a world away and had no effect on our lives, but today the Pandora’s Box was opened. I think you understand. All the hell of the world is unleashed when a small country is swallowed and an aggressive dictatorship can change the border with tanks. All borders in the world are artificial. And once the border is available, we will return to the world that led to World War II if the person who has the power to do it can erase the border.
Ishikov: You were recently in Ukraine just before the invasion, and you met President Zelensky. Have you ever been surprised by the way Russians enter and the strength of Ukrainian resistance led by Zelensky after seeing what happened in the last 10 days?
Marinovsky: I was impressed. I’m inspired. I’m not surprised. All the Ukrainians I spoke to when we were in Kyiv a month ago said they would fight, and it didn’t look like false bravery to me .. I felt very real. They are motivated. They are guarding the house. They protect their freedom. They are protecting their families. I’m not surprised that the Russians are confused and depressed. When Putin lie to his general, his general needs to lie to their officers, and the officers need to lie to their frontline army. No one was in a position to tell those Russian soldiers that they would resist them and go abroad to fight for every inch.
Ishikov: Is it really bad intelligence by the Russians that they don’t know the ferocity of resistance they will face, or is it just afraid to tell the truth to Vladimir Putin?
Marinovsky: It’s just a lie. That’s what happens when you have a lie-based government. The Kremlin has no process of receiving intelligence briefings from those who tell him that the dictator does not want to hear. This is a dictatorship. And, by the way, Russia has not had a single dictatorship since Stalin.
Clademan: How concerned were you about the attack on the nuclear power plant?
Marinovsky: It seems to me that they could destroy it fairly easily with artillery. So maybe it was a deliberate attempt to terrorize us and the Ukrainians by approaching the plants.
Ishikov: If Putin really is, as you say is Russia’s most powerful dictator since Stalin, it raises the question, can he be taken a testimony?
Marinovsky: Putin’s actions are driven by the knowledge that he may be testified. This is why Ukraine is the closest country to Russia in terms of history, culture and geography, and he fears Ukraine as people have expelled corrupt authoritarian leaders. He hates the example that the Ukrainians set up for the Russians. This is why he wants to shatter the place. So he is paranoid about it. But it’s incredibly difficult.
Clademan: If Russia succeeds in taking over the country, the war with the sovereign state may end. But the rebellion has just begun. What role should the United States play in that effort? Should we train armed groups on the ground in Ukraine, or is it too dangerous for us?
Marinovsky: So there are two things here. First, Russians may be able to defeat Ukrainian troops in the attacking city, but there is no way to retain and rule these places. They may have had the illusion of establishing a puppet government in Kyiv, but who is going to obey that government? Who — civil servants are not going to their office. Ukraine has no police or army capable of enforcing such government orders. That is, Russians need to maintain their strength, and if they do, they are targeted because they are overwhelmingly hated by almost everyone there.
So what do we do about it? One of the big question marks now is what is happening in western Ukraine. Western policymakers assume that the first worst scenario of this was Putin’s occupation of Kyiv, Kharkov and southern Ukraine, but he did not even try to go to western Ukraine. did.Lviv [near] Polish border. This is because it is the most Western-oriented, nationalist and Russian-speaking region of the country. I think all bets are off now. I think he, Putin, now wants to get all the shit. … and if he plans it, I think it raises a more serious question about Western military intervention. In no-fly zones, the United States must shoot Russians from the beginning. But, for example, NATO allies deployed troops in western Ukraine and drew a line, saying, “You haven’t crossed that line. During the Cold War, Ukraine will split like East and West Germany, North Korea, and South Korea. . “
Ishikov: Are you encouraging such a course now?
Marinovsky: I think that’s what we have to think about.
Ishikov: How to deploy US troops on the ground in western Ukraine to thwart Russians?
Marinovsky: At the very least, I think we need to think about the potential risks and benefits of having a NATO army (not necessarily the U.S. military), but if you do this by the U.S. Air Force in that part of Ukraine, it’s clearly a guarantee. Must be done.
Clademan: So it’s an area where Russians don’t exist at all now, so is there a danger of gun shooting?
Marinovsky: Imagine they take Kyiv and even Odessa. They will be abused. They will not be in a position to take on the Western army or other troops after that. They only have nuclear options. And of course, that’s the scary part. Whether they start such a war under such circumstances is a question that policy makers must ask.
Ishikov: If Russians are talking about the possibility of launching a nuclear war, that seems like a pretty big risk.
Marinovsky: That’s probably a huge risk. The alternative, on the other hand, is the Russian army on the Polish, Romanian and Hungarian borders, which may completely eliminate Ukraine.