A few days after the deadly shooting of 16-year-old Makia Briant in Columbus, Ohio, Governor Mike Dewin said police-involved shootings needed an automated external investigation.
John Dickerson: Next, go to Governor Mike DeWine of Ohio. Good morning, Governor.
Mike DeWine: John in the morning.
John Dickerson: Governor, after this week’s verdict, you said, “The death of George Floyd has exposed some of the deepest divisions in our country. We can learn a lot from this great tragedy.” What do we learn?
Mike DeWine: John, I think there is a clear path to police reform. I think there is something we can all get together, whether it’s Democratic or Republican, liberal or conservative. For example, before the state legislature we presented, there is a bill that requires more police training and more uniform police training.
Ohio has 900 police stations and several police stations. Many states have many small departments. Often, resources prevent you from getting the training you need. Body camera. As you know, the tragedy of a 16-year-old child killed in Columbus. Mayor Ginther made the absolutely right decision. Within 6 hours, they told the news media about it.
However, not all police stations in this country have body cameras because of the cost. So we submitted a bill to Congress to fund a police station body camera. Another way is clearly there, and that is to treat the police as an expert. What does that mean?
Well, as you know, we have a state license committee for doctors, lawyers, and nurses. The same should be done with the police so that the state license committee can handle any complaints made to the police officers. These are common sense things we can do, they shouldn’t be controversial, and we can all lag behind.
John Dickerson: I would like to reach some of those reforms soon. You mentioned the Maquia Briant case. You-You endorse the release of the video. When you were the Attorney General, you called an outside prosecutor in this case. Should there be one in this case?
Mike DeWine: Well, they already have an outside investigator, BCI. And in most cases, I think this is certainly sought after. Get someone in-
John Dickerson: Governor, do we need to do this automatically?
Mike DeWine: -Please investigate. And-sorry?
John Dickerson: Governor, do we need to do this automatically?
Mike DeWine: Yeah, I think it should be automatic, automatic outside, someone comes in to investigate. You also have a prosecution, the prosecution itself, as you know. And that doesn’t mean that local prosecutors can’t do that, or local police can’t investigate themselves. But, as you know, there is always an appearance, especially if the police are investigating themselves, as you know, it wasn’t a fair investigation.
So I think you’ll get rid of that feeling, get rid of that look, and make sure it’s the external agency that’s doing the research. Ohio’s BCI is doing a great job. They are involved-it’s a state agency. They asked the mayor to come to Columbus to investigate.
John Dickerson: You talked about training, and I want to talk about the Maquia Bryant case. Many people are watching it because there is a video, and many are making decisions. Many people in the black community see white perpetrators, sometimes young white men who have just made a turmoil, in custody.
But when it’s a young black man or woman, there-they-there’s shooting. There is the use of force. And they believe there is a huge gap in the discretion used by executives. Do you understand that feeling?
Mike DeWine: Well, I do understand that feeling. I also understand the feelings of police officers. I was not a police officer, but a county prosecutor. You see, they’re doing a lot of work. You know, they have to make a momentary decision.
And in this particular case, for example, you’re seeing the same thing I’m seeing. You know the same as me-I’m watching. But that’s what police officers saw. That’s why, frankly, it’s one of the reasons to take a camcorder and make it publicly available so that everyone can see it.
But yes, I understand how they feel. It knows, teaches them implicit bias, you know, more police training, how you spread the situation, how you deal with someone with mental health problems Do or you have autism, all these things, you know, we know how to do it now.
John Dickerson: Yes–
Mike DeWine: It only provides that training to all police, all police officers in the country.
John Dickerson: I would like to ask you about the issue of implicit bias. The figure shows that blacks are twice as likely to be shot by one of these instances. And in Columbus, there was a study showing that even though black residents account for 28% of the city, they are involved in half of the use of force cases. So it’s not just a feeling. The numbers confirm that. And can this training be very specific about the basic implicit view of race that is somehow embedded in the police that causes these consequences?
Mike DeWine: I’ve acknowledged. This-This is today’s state-of-the-art training, John. This is what the experts want. And I haven’t met a police officer who doesn’t want any more training yet. This is part of it-that kind of training is absolutely. This is what I did when I was the Attorney General. That’s what we want to spread in more police training, on-going police training every year, and even in the smallest departments. That is what we should have.
John Dickerson: I would like to ask you about the limited immunity. This is a jargon we often hear. Some people say it protects cheating police officers. Others say it allows them to make sincere efforts in these moments. It is cared for in the states, New Mexico and Colorado. Does Ohio do anything to change the limited immunity?
Mike DeWine: Yeah, John-John, we’re not really discussing it. I’m sure it will be. We’ll look at it, but we’re not really looking at it to see how it affects it.
John Dickerson: And do you have a view in either way, whether it should or shouldn’t?
Mike DeWine: number
John Dickerson: let me –
Mike DeWine: I really don’t.
John Dickerson: Let me ask you a simple question about COVID-19. There is a lot of vaccine hesitation there. A, how worried about that? And B, as a Republican, one of the things we found in our polls is that 46%-sorry-49% of Republicans either don’t receive it at all or are very hesitant. .. So how worried are you? And what do you say to fellow Republicans?
Mike DeWine: John, I’m worried. That’s a concern, as we’ve found that vaccination rates have dropped to about half of what they were three weeks ago. But at least on the first shot, about 40% of the total population was vaccinated.
To move forward, we need to continue. Looking at those aged 65 and over, it exceeds 70%, 73%, and 74%. So while we’re pretty well on our way, we need to keep moving forward. The game is not over yet. So I-I’m worried about it.
John Dickerson: OK.
Mike DeWine: As you know, one of the things we do now is to reach out to businesses and provide them directly with vaccinations. We do the same in college. I was doing–
John Dickerson: Alright, Governor, let’s go-
Mike DeWine: -The same is true in our high school. We have to be more aggressive.
John Dickerson: Alright, thank you Governor-
Mike DeWine: And we are doing that.
John Dickerson: thank you so much. I’m sorry, but I need to be proactive. Thank you, Governor.